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 Re: Our Journeys
 
 5/29/2007 3:10:32 AM
User is offline808080
4 posts


Re: Our Journeys
 (N/A)
Wow, good question - who God is. It's like you said, it's me that's changed not God. He is a lot, lot bigger. But that's because I'm okay with not having all the answers anymore. My questioning got pretty intense. I got to a point where I took everything off the table and would only put back on what I was absolutely sure I believed. For a while, the only thing on the table was that there is a personal God, that he's only all good, and that he desires a relationship with his children. Oh, and that I'm the one who screwed up the relationship not him. Eventually I could put Jesus' atoning death back on, but it was a long time. Scary as you can imagine. But it was really good for me to be okay with staying there as long as it took. Like you said, I knew I couldn't do anything to get myself out. Now? God is very close. I read the Bible and it's more alive than ever. Jesus has become so 3 dimensional and has a depth to him I couldn't see before. My prayer life is different. A lot more listening and a ton less words on my part. Wow I sound like a hallmark card. ;) It really is good now, but it really was hard work getting here. But I'm sorry, I'm off on a tangent away from Nouwen's book. Can you say more about your anger?
 5/29/2007 5:58:18 PM
User is offlineJackie
9 posts


Re: Our Journeys
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Wow, your story is so easy to relate to.  I came to the conclusion several months ago that I have no clue who He is, guess that's kind of like you "taking everything off the table".  Around Easter time the question came to mind that "What if salvation is all there is?"  My answer has come to be that, that is more than enough.  I want to believe He is personal, that His love is personal and not just general.  I have this fear that if He is, then my doubt will push Him away.  Were you ever concerned that it would take "too long"?  I don't know that I can elaborate much on the anger thing.  Too personal for a message board.  It's like an underlying everpresent darkness lurking inside of me.  The harder I try not to be, the bigger it seems to become.  Sorry to be so cryptic.  It is hard to stay, to wait and to hold fast to the few things I know are true.  I hope I will one day be able to say "God is very close"
 5/29/2007 8:04:53 PM
User is offline808080
4 posts


Re: Our Journeys
 (N/A)
Yep, that was me, too. A stark realization that I had no clue who God really is. Does the darkness feel scary or just unknown? Again, may be too personal for here. But sounds like "dark night of the soul" stuff, if you're familiar with that. It's interesting that you're thinking your doubt could push a personal God away. Wonder where that's coming from. For me I wasn't concerned it would take too long because I wasn't thinking about "when" but "if" I'd come out of the questioning. I found a couple -literally 2 - good friends who weren't scared by my questions and faith issues and processed with them best I could. That was something I really needed. And I understand about some of this being too personal for a message board. We could take it offline to email if I knew how to do that!
 5/29/2007 9:20:52 PM
User is offlinejam63
5 posts


Re: Our Journeys
 (United States)

Jackie ;

  I have not read Nouwen's book. But I have come to understand a little on God being far away. I have been a believer for about 30 years and I am still young in Him. Like The apostle Paul , Pressing toward that upward call in Christ Jesus.The most wonderful and hard book I know I needed at one time in my life was The Dark Night of the soul- by St. John of the Cross.

  There comes a time in all our walks that the savior, as we grow in Him removes the spiritual attachments from us such as the emotional feelings, Feelings during our prayer time, or even our enjoyment during music. When this happens the desert time is here. As Jesus went into the desert to be alone so do we with nothing but what the savior had and that was God's word. We trust that His word is truth regardless if we feel anything at all. This lesson according to Saint John is one of the hardest to learn and it seems that we will stay in school until we really grasp this. Remember, God has eternity and we are in time so the desert can be short or long depending on what we will learn with Him teaching us. As I grow I become used to the tingly feelings kinda like a spiritual fix of sorts and not on Christ himself. And He will wean us for sure. Our real faith and walk takes root during this time to where he becomes more real than when we had Him nursing our every whim. May God richly bless you and keep you during this time. Place yourself in His capable hand and ask Him what He would have from you and fully focus on Him. Kinda like Peter said to our Lord When Jesus asked him if he wanted to leave (with the 70 ), Peter said where would he go, For Jesus had the words of life. His Grace is awesome, rest in it.

                                                                                               All of Christ in all of you;       

                                                                                               James

 5/30/2007 4:42:09 AM
User is offlineJackie
9 posts


Re: Our Journeys
 (N/A)

Adie~Somedays scary, some days unknown.  I am familiar with the Dark Night of the Soul.  Earlier this year someone suggested a Richard Foster Devotional Classics section about John of the Cross and the Dark Night.  I had tried to read Dark Night some time ago and found it very difficult but after reading Fosters excerpt I went back and read it again.  Maybe Foster's insights helped and maybe I was just in a place to hear and I wasn't before. Yes it does fit where I am.  Funny that you would share that you weren't thinking "when" but "if" you would ever come out of the questioning because my question about it taking "too long" was rooted in my concern that I might not come out of it.  So you saw right through me    Your posts have been a huge gift in regard to the need to process this, I think I have been avoiding processing it to some degree.

James~Thank you for your words of encouragement.  I have printed your post and slipped it in my journal to remind me how to hold on and "be" in this place.  There truly is no where else to go.

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